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hey everybody i'm bryce abel out here in los\h
angeles and you're listening to the latest\h\h

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edition of need to know uh the podcast about\h
everything you need to know about ufo and uap\h\h

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as an issue and we do it of course\h
from two continents we do it from\h\h

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australia where my partner ross coldheart resides\h
in and of course here in the the united states we\h\h

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have a great show uh here for you today we have\h
dave beatty who is the investigative filmmaker\h\h

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who is behind the nimitz encounter video that\h
was released in 2018. it's really sensational\h\h

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but we're going to dive beyond what he did uh with\h
that video to what he's working on now and i'm i'm\h\h

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really happy to bring him on and show that to you\h
but it is kind of lonely here i mean you know when\h\h

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you have to do everything by zoom and there's\h
really no surprises and nothing ever really\h\h

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happens except that i look at this look they do\h
let australians out of australia we're not just a\h\h

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penalty i gotta tell you this is crazy i gotta say\h
you know this is like the handshake between the\h\h

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apollo and the soyuz this is the except that he's\h
not a communist this is the first time we've met\h\h

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in the flesh we've been talking to each other\h
now for months it's a funny thing isn't it that\h\h

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the miracle of technology like zoom stream\h
yard whatever we're using to communicate\h\h

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allows us to develop a friendship and indeed\h
a collaboration on the subject of uaps and\h\h

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we've never even met in the flesh you know what's\h
interesting about it though ross i think it really\h\h

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illustrates how the world kind of changed and\h
shifted off balance a little bit from the pandemic\h\h

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because it didn't seem strange at all that the way\h
we started getting to know each other was you know\h\h

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i figured like i'm zooming with all my friends\h
why don't i just zoom with somebody in australia\h\h

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the only difference was that what 19-hour\h
time difference or whatever whatever it is\h\h

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and the flood oh my god oh the flight it that's\h
another oh my god i tell as you get older it just\h\h

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doesn't stop hurting it it's painful hopping on a\h
plane and sitting there for 15 hours rolling your\h\h

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thumbs like this waiting to get off the flight\h
but it's nice to be it is and you know just so\h\h

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people kind of understand the dynamic when we\h
started i think it was literally through a zoom\h\h

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it was just like well you know i i figured like i\h
might as well talk to this guy i enjoyed his book\h\h

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i enjoyed the the documentary you did for channel\h
seven and i thought i should call him up and talk\h\h

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to him i'm a reporter in my past as as ross is\h
currently today of course and one thing i learned\h\h

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is there's almost nobody you can't call up so i\h
called you up rice we're up to missed your father\h\h

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we are up to mischief i'm here for a reason yes\h
he is and it's not just to come to my house and\h\h

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sit in front of this crazy corkboard okay there\h
are other reasons now we are here for a reason\h\h

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yeah we have a very very interesting reason that\h
i'm here but i can't talk about it right now but\h\h

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it's are you saying that people don't need to\h
know about this right now you need to know about\h\h

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see i don't know if that's going to fly i i don't\h
know i'll tell you can we at least we can at least\h\h

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tell part of it obviously you are here you came\h
here working on a number of stories yeah i've\h\h

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basically channel 7 australia sent me periodically\h
around the world to do various stories and one of\h\h

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those stories i'm doing at the moment with you no\h
less yes it's about ufos uaps but we'll have to\h\h

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hold back on that for a moment let's well we won't\h
tell everybody about it but all i can say for my\h\h

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own purposes is it has been you know without\h
getting into the details of what we've done or\h\h

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who we've talked to or what it's all going to be\h
about just the process uh you have a incredible\h\h

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crew that you work with they're incredibly\h
talented and uh everybody works uh hard and uh\h\h

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and we have a long time it's a long time since\h
bryce has been on the road as a reporter with\h\h

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the television crew we have been slogging him the\h
last couple of days i've been on the road with\h\h

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with cruz but i tell you this was fun because\h
it actually was ross and and me on the road\h\h

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driving around here in southern california\h
and other parts and and um i am very excited\h\h

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uh to first this i haven't seen the footage yet\h
so i'm excited to see that footage and then i'm\h\h

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excited to see what we can make of it and and\h
so uh folks on the other end of this screen\h\h

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you're gonna get to not only see it uh as a\h
video but then also we're going to be able to\h\h

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bring you longer form editions of it i think on\h
the podcast so that's enough teas that's enough\h\h

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to make people go crazy but it is great to see you\h
here and um and i hope that that leads to other\h\h

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times when we can do this now bryce it's been\h
a momentous week yeah in space exploration\h\h

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oh has it really i mean think about it the\h
web you're talking about the web telescope so\h\h

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we've been waiting i remember you talking about\h
the web on like our third podcast or something\h\h

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and we were very excited because first of all the\h
hubble has provided some of the most incredible\h\h

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images that we've ever seen i mean they were\h
fascinating and yet the web is supposed to be\h\h

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even better so we have been waiting for the\h
first web images to come out and we've seen\h\h

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the first four yeah in fact there's going\h
to be a drop in about one hour from now\h\h

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of the next images that they've shot and i'm\h
really excited to see what they've got because\h\h

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i think the thing that blows you away is\h
this is a device that's literally sitting\h\h

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in a position on the other side of the moon\h
it's just such a miracle of technology i mean\h\h

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it's amazing it's to me you know the thing\h
i love about it it's it's a tribute to human\h\h

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exceptionalism it certainly is and and it makes\h
you feel good it just makes you feel good and\h\h

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and you mentioned that there's going to be another\h
drop of images so those of you who are watching\h\h

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uh this on our youtube expression you will get\h
to see those images as we're talking right now\h\h

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and you know each one just is so exciting\h
it's like opening a christmas present\h\h

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it's like what is this going to look like and\h
they always blow your mind there's one that's\h\h

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up on social media at the moment and you can zoom\h
into this tiny little dot of grain of sand in this\h\h

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huge vista of stars and they zoom in and this\h
is the power of the james whip they zoom in and\h\h

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then you realize that that little dot that little\h
grain of sand is galaxies thousands of galaxies\h\h

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it's it's literally breathtaking what this\h
telescope's capable of doing when i saw that stuff\h\h

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what it reminded me of is that there is um there\h
are photos that you can take and have been taken\h\h

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of like football stadiums or baseball staying\h
full of people right just many many thousands of\h\h

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people but the the um resolution is so fantastic\h
that you can literally move in on a single person\h\h

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and see them i feel like the technology between\h
behind that hubble is is more than that by by a\h\h

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large degree but it's being brought to to bear\h
on looking at space and the one thing that\h\h

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people keep expressing over and over is when\h
you see the gigantic nature of space that the\h\h

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hubble and now the web are giving us it does seem\h
pretty hard to imagine that that we're just alone\h\h

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in this big universe it also seems pretty hard to\h
imagine with the technology they've got on board\h\h

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that incredible piece of construction that we\h
won't at some stage see a signature well that's\h\h

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the hope from a lot of people and and it is kind\h
of interesting we have seen the search for uh\h\h

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life out there uh pivot to we're now thinking\h
about maybe there's that life has come here who\h\h

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who knows we're we're looking into that yeah but\h
but it it would be a game changer on its own level\h\h

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if the hubble found signatures but you know i i\h
just think you know we do give nasa a bollocking\h\h

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every now and then we do the simple fact that they\h
they are sitting on videos that they really should\h\h

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be releasing and explaining more about sure\h
they actually see from this space station but\h\h

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the thing i really do admire is this is\h
a truly momentous accomplishment and and\h\h

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in terms of scientific knowledge human\h
understanding of our place in the universe\h\h

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it's pretty hard to go past what the james webb\h
is going to be doing for us in the next few years\h\h

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to me it sort of has some of the same emotional uh\h
feelings that i felt during the moon landing yeah\h\h

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it it it made me proud that humanity for all its\h
problems could still muster the capacity to do\h\h

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something brilliant and wonderful and positive and\h
and clearly we're doing that with the web now of\h\h

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course now we have to come back down to earth and\h
say what's going on around here there are there\h\h

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are some updates we can make and and i think one\h
of the first that we should talk about is probably\h\h

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where do we stand on congressional hearings\h
since we seem to always be talking about it\h\h

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because first of all they're either talking about\h
having earrings or having earrings or whatever\h\h

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okay i've been ringing the phones by golly\h
i've been hitting the phone since i got here\h\h

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um i am very very sure there are going to be more\h
congressional hearings and by golly they're going\h\h

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to be a lot more interesting than this floppy\h
flaccid piece of wet lettuce that we got from\h\h

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ron moultrie and scott bray despite their best\h
intentions back in may i don't think they could\h\h

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be much worse yeah i think what we're going to\h
get are witnesses who actually want to testify\h\h

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and who are psychologically motivated to\h
give evidence that hopefully will provide\h\h

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an interesting insight into the uap issue it\h
is true though we are hearing people that keep\h\h

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saying things like oh well you you know you'll\h
you'll see some surprising people and and there\h\h

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are people sort of beating the drums in the\h
distance to say this could be a game changer\h\h

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look i i actually got off the phone earlier today\h
to somebody in congress who told me ross it's the\h\h

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january 6 hearing yeah basically everything is\h
delayed because they're all going like blazers\h\h

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to try and get the evidence out for the january 6\h
hearing as quickly as possible and to resolve that\h\h

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issue because they don't want the january 6 issue\h
to overwhelm what they're hoping will come out of\h\h

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the uap hearings i would i would look at it the\h
same way and it doesn't really bother me at all\h\h

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let the january 6 hearings play themselves out\h
they have to i mean i don't care which side the\h\h

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political divide if there is a political divide\h
and whether you should have those hearings or not\h\h

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it doesn't really matter if the people\h
who are getting the uap hearings together\h\h

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are doing their due diligent work and are\h
are trying to get the right witnesses to\h\h

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can you imagine if a uap hearing was\h
organized with the same degree of detail and\h\h

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presentation as these january 6 hearings have\h
been my god i mean that would draw ratings uh\h\h

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that would be better than a seinfeld finale i mean\h
it would be incredible i mean you know it's funny\h\h

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i've noticed some people on social media have\h
said that they thought that the politicians in\h\h

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the hearing on may 17th ask some good questions\h
and i'm just wondering what planet they're off\h\h

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they they allowed themselves to be snowed yeah\h
by golly that mustn't be allowed to happen again\h\h

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and just to address the issue one of the things\h
that i think is absolutely imperative if we do\h\h

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have further hearings i didn't realize this i've\h
been looking at the law in congress you can call\h\h

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witnesses but it's a decision of the committee\h
chairman whether or not they're put under oath i\h\h

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hate that i just hate that i mean the first thing\h
that's important is that whoever comes up before\h\h

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the congress must be sworn under oath absolutely\h
otherwise what's stopping them from can you even\h\h

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imagine to construct a situation where you bring\h
somebody in to speak to the duly elected congress\h\h

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of your country and you don't do everything you\h
can to ensure they're going to tell you the truth\h\h

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the other thing that we need to do yeah and\h
this is where we are getting good news i'm\h\h

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hearing from the traps inside the congress that\h
there is cracker legislation coming through that\h\h

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will provide an assurance of immunity to witnesses\h
that want to come forward it's going to indemnify\h\h

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people who have national security obligations\h
ndas that restrain them from speaking they will\h\h

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be given assurances that they can speak without\h
fear of prosecution this is just shocking i think\h\h

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because it's interesting for years people in our\h
position where we're opining about the whole issue\h\h

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we've said well there needs to be immunity and\h
we've listed these things but i don't think we\h\h

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ever thought they'd actually get around to it very\h
soon and have people actually drafting legislation\h\h

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and and putting it in writing you see that it\h
could actually happen and then you start to say\h\h

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wow that's the kind of thing where you bring\h
it think about even water john dean talks about\h\h

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what he's going to talk about and then boom\h
it blows open you bring in one great witness\h\h

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under oath and have them say some things that then\h
cause you to call other witnesses to find out the\h\h

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details of what they're saying this well this like\h
i say it's better than a seinfeld finale it really\h\h

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is now i think we need to get onto our guest yes\h
we do we do we'll bring dave beatty into the show\h\h

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within a few minutes on the next segment\h
on need to know catch you on the other side

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g'day and welcome back to need to know now\h
we've got a special guest today because we need\h\h

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someone who can explain this ongoing mystery\h
of the 2019 drone swarms that happened off the\h\h

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californian coast and one of the experts in this\h
area who i think has been under acknowledged is\h\h

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dave beatty if we can bring dave on g'day dave how\h
are you mate hey good to see you rice and brace uh\h\h

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glad to be here now just to introduce you dave\h
you're a former mufon investigator from a long\h\h

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way back but you're very much an investigative\h
filmmaker these days i i first learned about you\h\h

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when you were doing the nimitz encounter videos\h
which i think told beautifully in a visual way\h\h

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using the data that the navy had provided\h
exactly what happens during that encounter\h\h

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yeah that's correct um and that was my goal\h
to basically take something that was a complex\h\h

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case that maybe not many people would understand\h
listening to the pilot's talk and so on but by\h\h

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using computer simulation and graphics putting\h
that together in a very journalistic way basically\h\h

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stating the facts of what was known and then\h
telling that story you know those 15 minutes\h\h

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or so or 30 minutes of that encounter that was\h
my goal when i put that together um and i kind\h\h

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of made it for myself you know i like go and\h
watch it at night and stuff when i was working\h\h

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at it and it was just like you know it was awesome\h
so i never expected it to get that much traction\h\h

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i it was just a you know kind of a passion\h
project not sponsored or anything like that and\h\h

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you know we're almost up to uh six six million\h
views on youtube which is pretty successful so\h\h

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i was just gonna say dave i've seen it twice i saw\h
it when it first came out and then i watched it\h\h

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in advance of this i was just wondering uh do you\h
reserve the right or do you ever update it if you\h\h

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found a different fact or a different way to do\h
the video would you update it or is it standing as\h\h

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it is yeah actually um that was my goal from the\h
very beginning um you know unfortunately youtube\h\h

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doesn't let you sort of replace a video once it's\h
um online so what i was doing was sort of adding a\h\h

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new video and in fact there is um a second version\h
of the video that i i released because um gary\h\h

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voorhees one of the witnesses sort of recanted\h
his story about um hearing about an underwater\h\h

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object or a uso that was tracked he said that the\h
information that he received back in the day was\h\h

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incorrect and he had been informed by another\h
sonar man that was on the uss princeton that\h\h

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they had not had an underwater contact so i\h
actually redid the video and took that part out\h\h

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good so can we roll forward dave as we all\h
know we're setting the scene here on the 17th\h\h

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of may there were two intelligence\h
officials ron moultrie and scott bray\h\h

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who put very much the navy point of view on the\h
2019 drone swarms off the californian coast and\h\h

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i i don't think they actually said specifically\h
what a lot of people have actually said they said\h\h

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but i think a lot of people have concluded that\h
their assertion is that generally what we were\h\h

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what we were seeing with those videos that the\h
navy shot of the californian coast were drones\h\h

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uas's i.e the inference being some kind of\h
prosaic explanation right what's your say on there\h\h

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that's absolutely correct in fact going back to\h
the first documentation that i received from the\h\h

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navy which would have been in 2020 in the spring\h
of 2020 when i first learned about this incident\h\h

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um the deck logs were pointing\h
in the that direction as far as\h\h

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using terminology that is known and i was\h
sort of surprised because i had learned\h\h

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about this case as being an unknown case that the\h
sailors didn't know what these objects were but\h\h

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in looking at the documentation they were using\h
terms like unmanned aerial systems or drones and\h\h

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new logs referenced that over and over but many\h
times they would use unidentified so it might say\h\h

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unidentified drone spotted flashing light spotted\h
a red light spotted a uas or uav they used a lot\h\h

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of different acronyms they never used like\h
the term ufo and at that time the term uap\h\h

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really hadn't been um you know disseminated to\h
the navy as an official term at that point it was\h\h

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kind of right around when they were gearing\h
up for those new reporting strategies but\h\h

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you know when i looked at it you know i was\h
like okay well maybe they're using this term\h\h

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for something that is a light in the sky it's\h
flashing it's moving around it could be a drone so\h\h

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what else are we going to write in the log books\h
but drone and is drone uh the new dirty word of\h\h

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uh ufology or can we look at drone as simply\h
something that appears to not be controlled\h\h

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by someone sitting inside a vehicle but from\h
someone outside the vehicle which would include\h\h

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possibly non-human people running it right i mean\h
i guess when you say an unmanned aerial system or\h\h

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uas you're saying it's a machine that's in the\h
air that doesn't have a man in it or a woman but\h\h

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you know so if they don't know where it came from\h
or what it is they might be able to get away with\h\h

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using that term and that made it's possible that\h
the the quartermasters on these vessels were told\h\h

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simply you know just use that term and they're\h
probably on the radio with some of the other\h\h

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ships and they're discussing this and they're\h
saying well what do we say you know write down\h\h

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uav spotted uavs or use the term drone and we\h
saw that over and over and then in the in the\h\h

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emails that came out a little bit later that\h
year in 2020 um we discovered that the navy was\h\h

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actively investigating some other vessels in the\h
area trying to find out if they were flying drones\h\h

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and in fact there were a couple of um vessels\h
out there that had drones in fact a lot of\h\h

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ships that are civilian ships you know they might\h
um have a drone or something looking for fish or\h\h

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one of their ships had a drone they were doing\h
ocean research on flotsam so yeah i mean some\h\h

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vessels did but actually the activity of these\h
drones was highly unusual and they never really\h\h

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found as far as i know they never really found\h
any at the time any ships around there that were\h\h

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menacing these uh u.s warships would like you\h
know 10 10 or 11 drones flying around him and\h\h

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hovering over the ships now that's what interests\h
me dave because it's interesting there's a bulk\h\h

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carrier called the bass strait which is a strip\h
of water between australia and tasmania melbourne\h\h

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and tasmania and uh it's interesting because it's\h
been a bulk carrier that's operated in australian\h\h

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waters and it seems to have been going through the\h
middle of these american warships at some stage\h\h

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during the exercise that they were involved in\h
but can we be very clear about this i don't think\h\h

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the explanation that these drones were supposedly\h
launched from the bass straight works because as\h\h

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i understand it it was actually in port in san\h
diego for a good part of the sightings when they\h\h

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occurred am i wrong no i mean that vessel had a\h
reason to be there like you know dozens and dozens\h\h

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of container ships and bulk carriers and tankers\h
and other merchant vessels that go in and out of\h\h

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the port of los angeles at long beach um you know\h
on a daily basis these vessels are in the shipping\h\h

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channels they're going in the same stretch of\h
ocean that the u.s navy is using for training\h\h

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you know these aren't like restricted waters that\h
only the navy can use so this ship was simply\h\h

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driving in that area either on its way into poor\h
waiting outside of the port you know as we know\h\h

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last year some of these ships got stuck outside of\h
port waiting to get in so the vessel had a reason\h\h

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for being there but the navy thought that it was\h
possibly the source of these drones now a lot of\h\h

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the information coming from the navy is sort of\h
sketchy did the navy actually witness a drone\h\h

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launching from this vessel it seemed to be close\h
enough for them to watch the drones to see if they\h\h

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landed there or took off from there obviously if\h
the ship's a mile away you could just sit there\h\h

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and track these drones i don't know that they ever\h
found that i have not seen any evidence in fact\h\h

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that actually showed a drone you know um like\h
a surveillance drone coming off this vessel so\h\h

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i don't know i mean i know that they certainly\h
did suspect it because it's in these uh official\h\h

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documents you know you said you haven't seen\h
any evidence i just thought to myself how does\h\h

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one how does someone in your position evaluate\h
evidence where do you get evidence in other words\h\h

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what are you looking for to report in these films\h
that that you're making well i mean in the case\h\h

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of the navy when unusual events occur there's\h
certain mechanisms that are in place to document\h\h

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it if any kind of unusual drone for instance or\h
a small vessel or anything approaches the ship\h\h

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the navy you know deploys away these snoopy\h
teams they're like um you know ships nautical and\h\h

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otherwise something it's an acronym that stands\h
for photographers and videographers that run up to\h\h

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the top of the superstructure out onto the bridge\h
wings with cameras like you know high-powered\h\h

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dslrs and video cameras with zoom lenses and they\h
begin uh filming whatever they're seeing if it's\h\h

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um you know an object in the sky that's coming\h
close to the to the destroyer they're going to\h\h

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film this stuff with night vision goggles and\h
um they're going to do a report that goes to\h\h

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naval intelligence so i knew based on the ship\h
deck logs that whenever these uaps or drones or\h\h

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you know whatever they were were coming near the\h
vessels every single time they were deploying away\h\h

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these snoopy teams and so i knew that they had\h
video and you know photographic evidence of this\h\h

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so i began you know back then when i first\h
saw that begin trying to acquire some of the\h\h

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the videotape evidence and i i actually was\h
pretty unsuccessful um getting denials from\h\h

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freedom of information across the board from the\h
navy that this material was all classified so only\h\h

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recently the last year has some material trickled\h
out you know in the last few months you saw some\h\h

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snoopy team photographs actually and\h
even some videos where you you would hear\h\h

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the snoopy team um talking on the videotape saying\h
that they're filming a drone so that's kind of\h\h

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where this evidence first came about would be um\h
the number one looking at the the deck logs of the\h\h

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vessels this video evidence if it exists and then\h
even looking at publicly available transponder\h\h

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data that the the navy vessels are broadcasting\h
transponder gps data on an ongoing basis as all\h\h

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you know ships in in the world are doing so we\h
were able to look at that too to try to find\h\h

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out where the vessels were at any one time one\h
thing i was keen to know uh dave there's a vision\h\h

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or or a picture a still photograph in some of the\h
images from the o and i declassified report which\h\h

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appear to show a quadcopter i mean it looks like a\h
quadcopter and the reason why this matters i think\h\h

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just to explain to our audience i want to preface\h
here it matters this whole debate about what this\h\h

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drone's explanation means because i think that\h
that 29 incident was extraordinarily significant\h\h

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like you i've been talking to people in the navy\h
and former and serving navy people who've told me\h\h

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they don't buy the drones explanation they admit\h
that there may very well be drones at some stage\h\h

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during the course of this engagement but that\h
there were multiple engagements over various days\h\h

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so can you paint us a pin picture of not just\h
one incident but the whole series of incidents\h\h

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and were there vision or images of drones yeah\h
i mean i i have seen a couple of navy documents\h\h

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that show clearly that they were filming\h
a drone and obviously in this day and age\h\h

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if you just go outside you probably could find\h
one somewhere in a park and film it so yeah during\h\h

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this time period there were some incidents where\h
you know drones were in usage and you know as\h\h

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it's known fishermen do use drones so but these\h
it's not really the same thing that we're talking\h\h

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about here we're talking about where you would\h
have a davey destroyer reporting that they\h\h

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began um receiving reports from the lookouts that\h
they had multiple unknown aerial air contacts\h\h

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inbound approaching the vessel and in some\h
of these cases specifically in the month of\h\h

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july 2019 you had day after day night after\h
night actually not during the day but almost\h\h

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entirely at night night after night of these\h
incidents taking place where you might have\h\h

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you know three or four or six or seven or 10 10\h
or 11 drones approaching a navy warship and then\h\h

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circling around the ship sometimes hovering above\h
the ship um you know the the the the sailors were\h\h

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looking at lights in the sky very hard to discern\h
shapes they didn't report as far as i could tell\h\h

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they didn't report these incidents during the\h
daytime where it might be a little bit easier to\h\h

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see what they're looking at and and you know\h
again a light in the black sky is kind of hard\h\h

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to even photograph so that's kind of what\h
was happening in some cases you would have\h\h

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say four or five destroyers that were out\h
in the southern california operations area\h\h

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spread out over you know thousands of square\h
miles of ocean these these guys were not\h\h

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sitting together in a tight group they were\h
spread out hundreds and hundreds of miles apart\h\h

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yet they're all receiving multiple drones inbound\h
they're all receiving at the same exact time\h\h

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these uavs that you know are sort of very um\h
unusual again the navy is looking at this as a\h\h

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you know perhaps a foreign actor a foreign\h
state actor that's conducting surveillance but\h\h

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i just haven't seen the evidence that you know\h
they actually found that person or persons or\h\h

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government that was doing it it's sort of\h
suggestive that it's suspected drones it's\h\h

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suspected foreign you know they don't come right\h
out and say it but other investigators have said\h\h

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oh these are chinese drones it's obvious well\h
that's i think one you know hypothesis but you\h\h

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know again some of the navy veterans that i've\h
talked to the in fact the first guy i ever talked\h\h

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to told me hey these are not drones the person\h
that told me about this dave he's like hey these\h\h

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are not drones these are like were unknown they\h
were kind of freaking the guys out that were on\h\h

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the ships they couldn't identify them they were\h
you know very unusual in the behavior so i i think\h\h

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we maybe could come to the end of this segment\h
and i've got a few more questions for you dave\h\h

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because you've now got me going and i think we'll\h
be back in a moment with more on need to know

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welcome back to need to know now dave let's bring\h
you back in and have a further conversation about\h\h

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the drone swarms in 2019 just to explain to our\h
audience people might think i'm a bit obsessed\h\h

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with this issue but i think in terms of relative\h
importance this incident that took place in 2019\h\h

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is on a par with what took place with the 2004\h
nimitz incident and the 2014 2014-15 incidents\h\h

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that involved the uss theodore roosevelt off the\h
east coast near where you are dave do you agree\h\h

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yeah i do agree um the gentleman that you\h
know kind of leaked this story out to me\h\h

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was involved in the 2004 incident he was a\h
20-year navy veteran that had 14 years at sea\h\h

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retired as a chief warrant officer he was on the\h
uss chafee out there in 2004 he saw the tic tacs\h\h

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he told me he said dave and these objects in 2019\h
they were these same objects that were out there\h\h

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these tic tac things that's what that's what\h
his quote was to me now i don't know that the\h\h

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the people you know the veterans that actually\h
witnessed this reported white cylindrical objects\h\h

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i haven't seen that at all but he said that they\h
were very strange then they viewed them directly\h\h

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from the eye level from the bridge you know the\h
20 the east coast sightings that the 2014-2015\h\h

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again these were strange objects that\h
were hovering out there all day long\h\h

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maneuvering around these super hornets doing very\h
strange um uh you know kind of cat and mouse type\h\h

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stuff with the fighter jets behaving in ways and\h
and maintaining this these positions out there\h\h

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over the ocean hundreds of miles offshore that\h
just seem to defy kind of this idea that somebody\h\h

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flew these from a ship or you know obviously\h
it would be almost impossible to fly a hundred\h\h

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miles from land a small drone but the same thing\h
in 2019 if there's you know four or five ships\h\h

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out there and each one is receiving four or\h
five or six drones hundreds of miles offshore\h\h

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who's flying these things out there it's just\h
really odd you know uh dave that is true it\h\h

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raises the question where are they launching\h
from and where do they go after they're done\h\h

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uh the one thing i just wanted to make clear for\h
our audience is there's these numerous incidents\h\h

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uh the one that we seem to know a lot\h
about of course is nimitz that's the\h\h

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one that's captured the public imagination\h
everybody goes oh got it tic tacs right well\h\h

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tell me you started to get into it but like\h
are there observers on these other incidents\h\h

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who are describing physical craft and do\h
they differ specifically from the tic tac\h\h

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you know it's been very very challenging for me to\h
get anybody from the 2019 events to speak um i did\h\h

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make a serious attempt to begin contacting you\h
know former navy personnel that would have been\h\h

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on board and obviously there would be thousands\h
of these people um so that's a you know there's a\h\h

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challenge if anyone wants to partake you can find\h
on public sources where you know some of these\h\h

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sailors are listed and you know trying to reach\h
out to them as a journalist is a challenge and\h\h

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i did eventually contact a few who are willing\h
to talk to me but as soon as i mentioned this\h\h

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specific incident that this is what i was\h
researching they didn't talk to me anymore\h\h

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and they they pretty much ghosted me across\h
the board once i brought this incident up\h\h

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00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:54,160
and i don't know if they were you know signed\h
or or the davey basically told these people\h\h

328
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:59,200
don't talk about this to the press i don't know\h
well that's let me just follow up on that because\h\h

329
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:03,360
there's a couple of good explanations you've\h
touched on one it's like the navy can tell them\h\h

330
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:07,840
you're not to be talking about that but then\h
also there is the whole stigma issue which\h\h

331
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:13,280
we've all reassured ourselves is getting better\h
that people feel less stigmatized on the topic\h\h

332
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:18,160
so they're more willing to be honest about it but\h
that doesn't sound exactly like your experience\h\h

333
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:21,760
you're still getting pushback when you're\h
trying to talk to people is it because\h\h

334
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:26,560
they're active duty personnel and they're not\h
retired or what's your explanation for that yeah\h\h

335
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:32,720
i mean i've i've seen it go both ways i mean the\h
gentleman that originally contacted me was retired\h\h

336
00:34:32,720 --> 00:34:38,320
but yet he was still involved in his career so\h
a lot of people that are you know in the navy\h\h

337
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:43,600
for a long time they leave the navy and they're\h
involved in defense contractor careers i think in\h\h

338
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:49,440
in some cases when you're talking to people look\h
i'm not talking about this dave because i have a\h\h

339
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:54,800
career man and if it gets out that i'm talking to\h
a reporter about ufos you know that could affect\h\h

340
00:34:54,800 --> 00:35:00,400
my career so they're just unwilling to even go\h
further and i i really have to you know commend\h\h

341
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:06,560
these people that are willing to come forward and\h
talk to me you know and put their trust in me that\h\h

342
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:11,920
i'm not going to cause any problems for them\h
if they don't want to you know be publicly you\h\h

343
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:17,440
know named and so on and i know that ross you've\h
mentioned this before that it's utmost important\h\h

344
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:21,920
to protect the you know confidentiality of\h
these guys so that's what i've been trying to do\h\h

345
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:27,520
you're absolutely right dave i mean i it's funny\h
because i wanted to add to what you're saying\h\h

346
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:33,040
i actually just got off the phone as on my as i\h
was on my way here i'm as you know in l.a and uh\h\h

347
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:37,840
i was talking to somebody in australia who was\h
talking to me about an incident that took place\h\h

348
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:45,200
on a australian navy warship in australian\h
waters and i was just double checking with them\h\h

349
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:51,120
what they'd seen and one whether they'd\h
reported it to command but basically\h\h

350
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:58,320
there are identical incidents occurring on\h
australian navy ships and on new zealand\h\h

351
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:03,360
navy ships which are the two countries i know\h
best and it's quite fascinating to me that\h\h

352
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:07,680
this explanation of drones is now\h
emanating from the u.s navy and\h\h

353
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:13,440
the office of navy intelligence do you\h
think that the answers that were given\h\h

354
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:19,360
by the two intelligence officials moultrie\h
and bray to the congress were disingenuous\h\h

355
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:29,280
it's possible i know you know that they probably\h
are trying to present the navy line and that\h\h

356
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:36,400
is that they're trying the navy's saying these\h
are drones that we are trying to determine the\h\h

357
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:41,520
operator of the drones and and that's kind of\h
where the navy documentation if you look at it\h\h

358
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:46,080
forgive me for interrupting because i\h
i'm trying to get to the number of this

359
00:36:48,240 --> 00:36:54,560
i think it was an intentional attempt to\h
mislead the congress i think that a lot of\h\h

360
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:58,800
people have been led with the impression\h
as a result of the may 17th hearing\h\h

361
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:04,320
that really you know what there's not much to this\h
uap stuff you don't really need to expect much to\h\h

362
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:09,680
come out of these congressional hearings because\h
we're telling you these 2019 hearings they really\h\h

363
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:15,840
are being over exaggerated by these tinfoil\h
hat crazies it's basically a a drone incident\h\h

364
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:21,120
it's only a matter of time before we find\h
the foreign adversary responsible calm down\h\h

365
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:26,000
go back to your homes get on with your lives\h
don't worry this is another flap about nothing\h\h

366
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:35,840
do you agree with that i do i mean i agree that\h
you know sort of the the the usage of very poor\h\h

367
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:44,080
evidentiary cases number one uh you know pointing\h
out the fact that oh look we're going to show you\h\h

368
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:50,320
what's clearly a drone and by the way the shape\h
of the object is because whoever was filming it\h\h

369
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:56,480
with in with the navy with the highest quality\h
equipment can't get into focus so that's the\h\h

370
00:37:56,480 --> 00:38:02,480
evidence they're going to show or they're going to\h
show this video from a fighter jet that you know\h\h

371
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:09,280
is impossible to even see when clearly um over\h
the last several years including uh the work with\h\h

372
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:14,480
to to the stars and luisa lozando get in the\h
new york times getting some of these videos out\h\h

373
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:20,240
such as the gimbal video and the flir video\h
that have yet to be explained i mean where where\h\h

374
00:38:20,240 --> 00:38:25,440
are the senators looking at those videos where\h
where these other videos that i've been told are\h\h

375
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:32,000
substantially clear cases of unexplained objects\h
that these warships and planes and jets have been\h\h

376
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:37,360
seeing yet you know they're that's not the the\h
videos they're showing they're showing these easy\h\h

377
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:43,200
to kind of like throw away um cases that they\h
say oh there's nothing to it don't worry about\h\h

378
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:48,640
this stuff that's exactly what i want to follow up\h
on because i think that's the frustration we keep\h\h

379
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:53,440
getting told that people that are you know going\h
into classified briefings where they're seeing\h\h

380
00:38:53,440 --> 00:39:00,640
substantially longer uh encounters on video and\h
they're seeing substantially uh higher quality\h\h

381
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:06,960
videos than we're allowed to see now i understand\h
classification is and and as you obviously do but\h\h

382
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:12,480
uh what would ex let me put it this way you\h
we've all mentioned the the nimitz case and\h\h

383
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:18,240
we've mentioned the new york times reporting\h
of 2017 we're almost five years out from that\h\h

384
00:39:18,240 --> 00:39:23,840
now which is kind of a yardstick that i think a\h
lot of us will use to measure progress from when\h\h

385
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:31,920
you look at the situation we're in right now in\h
2022 uh almost five years later are you satisfied\h\h

386
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:36,960
with the progress or are you dissatisfied and if\h
you are dissatisfied what do you want to change\h\h

387
00:39:38,240 --> 00:39:42,640
i mean i i think that i would have to answer that\h
that i'm pretty satisfied the fact that we've\h\h

388
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:50,400
gone from you know completely zero interest in\h
complete denial complete and utter stigmatization\h\h

389
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:58,960
of this no academic study and no funds whatsoever\h
being applied to the research to at least they're\h\h

390
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:05,920
listening at least you know there's movement along\h
this front now whether there's you know behind the\h\h

391
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:12,560
scenes maneuvering to try to shut it all down\h
and again to you know create like you know the\h\h

392
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:18,880
the back in the day when the government accounting\h
office kind of shut the door on the roswell case\h\h

393
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:24,880
you know which was you know unfortunate um back\h
then after that for people had a lot of hope\h\h

394
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:30,560
that that was going to like generate some new\h
interest in um examining this stuff i'm hoping\h\h

395
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:37,040
this continues and that i i'm hoping the defense\h
authorization act gives immunity to whistleblowers\h\h

396
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:41,440
within the defense community people that might\h
have information that are afraid to come forward\h\h

397
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:46,640
at the at the risk of asking you a\h
question you don't want to answer\h\h

398
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:50,560
what are you working on right now we\h
know what you've done where are you going\h\h

399
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:57,600
well i mean in the la i mean i'm i still am doing\h
ufo stuff i mean i i i broke these two cases that\h\h

400
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:04,240
are you know kind of remarkable cases that get\h
really little play um and you can find them on\h\h

401
00:41:04,240 --> 00:41:10,160
my medium i can give you that at the end to if\h
people want to look at that but the the one case\h\h

402
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:18,480
um was a recent uap case from a marine transport\h
ship called the uss kearsarge and in october of\h\h

403
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:27,200
uh it would be 2020 or no october 2021 excuse\h
me and then january 2022 so just recently this\h\h

404
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:33,120
vessel was off the east coast doing training\h
operations and again um encounter these really\h\h

405
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:39,120
strange lights that were maneuvering behind the\h
vessel there were marines that were on the deck\h\h

406
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:45,520
of the ship that were filming it they submitted\h
a report um we foiad we got this powerpoint that\h\h

407
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:51,360
basically shows where the position of the ship\h
is and it clearly labels uaps this time they're\h\h

408
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:56,080
saying the uap was right here and they're\h
not saying it's a drone so that was kind of\h\h

409
00:41:56,080 --> 00:42:01,840
a breakthrough case there again it's still unknown\h
and then an older case that came to my attention\h\h

410
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:10,480
that i just completed a series of interviews was\h
the the uss ronald reagan where up to 10 people\h\h

411
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:18,000
on the bridge observed a glowing uh fiery orb that\h
basically was hovering over the ship for you know\h\h

412
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:25,200
all the people to see plainly in front of all\h
these people and um independently i interviewed\h\h

413
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:30,400
like three different sailors and talked to about\h
ten so it's just incredible so that's kind of what\h\h

414
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:36,800
i'm working on that's not my day job my day job\h
is working doing films i'm doing a documentary\h\h

415
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:43,760
on the uss enterprise for the world war ii\h
foundation it's being narrated by gary sinise\h\h

416
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:50,160
and it's going to be on pbs uh you know probably\h
early next year excellent so dave just returning\h\h

417
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:59,200
to the 29 incidents 2019 2018 for a moment the\h
the uss omaha case the splash splash splash video\h\h

418
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:07,040
i'm interested in that because it appears\h
to show an object doing something miraculous\h\h

419
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:14,720
it's hovering for a start and then it just\h
goes poof and it disappears it's perhaps\h\h

420
00:43:14,720 --> 00:43:19,280
going into the water which in itself is\h
trans medium one of the five observables\h\h

421
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:27,280
it's perhaps demonstrating stealth it's perhaps\h
demonstrating instantaneous velocity do you agree\h\h

422
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:37,520
yeah i mean for what we have there in the visual\h
evidence both the uh spherical looking flear\h\h

423
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:43,280
footage and then also from the same vessel which\h
we would assume around the same time we have radar\h\h

424
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:49,680
image imagery of the radar screen um and you can\h
hear the the commanders on the bridge of the omaha\h\h

425
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:56,000
describing these contacts and describing uh\h
the fact that this object was splashed marked\h\h

426
00:43:56,000 --> 00:44:00,800
bearing range we can assume that they must have\h
had that on radar because if you're going to do\h\h

427
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:06,720
mark bearing range that to me is like a radar\h
track that you're you know putting a pin on\h\h

428
00:44:06,720 --> 00:44:11,200
saying mark that right there because\h
that that object just disappeared\h\h

429
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:16,960
so you know it's very unusual i mean what what\h
were they observing again we need to talk to some\h\h

430
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:22,960
of these sailors to say you guys were there what\h
was it that you were looking at was this a dji\h\h

431
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:28,080
you know phantom pro or something out there or\h
was this not anything that anyone had ever seen\h\h

432
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:34,560
before but that's the point isn't it and to\h
come back to why the 2019-19 incident matters\h\h

433
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:41,840
it's because there is no known drone technology\h
or indeed there is no known technology\h\h

434
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:48,000
anywhere in any government in the world that can\h
do what that object did it's a solid object it's\h\h

435
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:56,480
either disappearing and going full stealth off\h
radar or it's moved so quickly that you can't\h\h

436
00:44:56,480 --> 00:45:02,480
see it or it's dropped into the sea so quickly\h
it's gone transmedium but it doesn't leave a\h\h

437
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:08,080
splash so right i mean i mean they thought that\h
it went in the water splash means that thing just\h\h

438
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:14,160
entered the water so that the whoever's on that\h
tape thinks that object just went in and whether\h\h

439
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:19,600
they thought that it crashed or it disappeared um\h
i believe that they went and tried to find it and\h\h

440
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:25,600
didn't find anything uh okay that's funny i was\h
just gonna say we're we're rapidly running out of\h\h

441
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:31,840
time i know one of the results of our conversation\h
today is a lot of people dave are gonna search out\h\h

442
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:37,360
your uh excellent documentary um and they're going\h
to watch it again and we'll certainly link to it\h\h

443
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:42,880
uh and so that people can take a look at it i just\h
want to know because people are are going to look\h\h

444
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:48,320
at it and they're going to say so this is the best\h
representation of what happened talk to me about\h\h

445
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:55,840
creating the tic tac you did it through i guess\h
cgi i'm i'm assuming and how did you determine\h\h

446
00:45:56,480 --> 00:46:03,680
what to make it look like and how accurate do you\h
feel you you did were you successful or should\h\h

447
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:07,760
people take what they're saying with a grain of\h
salt and just say well it's the best guess at\h\h

448
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:13,520
this time well i mean what i did was i took every\h
available at the time you know this would have\h\h

449
00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:23,520
been 2018 every available uh article and narrative\h
uh at the time by the pilots you know at the time\h\h

450
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:30,240
you we heard from commander david fravor commander\h
lieutenant commander jim slate uh douglas kurth\h\h

451
00:46:30,240 --> 00:46:36,160
and you know some anonymous pilots at the time\h
that today we know our commander at the time\h\h

452
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:42,160
lieutenant alex dietrich so in looking at their\h
narratives and their description of what they saw\h\h

453
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:47,920
in and then putting that together with some of\h
the uh unofficial reports that we had at the time\h\h

454
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:53,920
we could kind of guestimate where the object was\h
and where the jets were so basically i took that\h\h

455
00:46:53,920 --> 00:47:00,320
information and then using a physical simulation\h
i can place the jets in that environment at twenty\h\h

456
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:05,840
thousand feet above the ocean i can put an object\h
in the ocean that you know commander fravor said\h\h

457
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:12,400
looks like a 737 that's under underwater and\h
a 40 foot or 40 to 50 foot white capsule above\h\h

458
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:17,760
the ocean and show you what that looks like and\h
i can show you the perspective from the pilots\h\h

459
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:22,880
as they're looking down as they begin descending\h
they see this object come up and they you know\h\h

460
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:29,600
he begins um kind of doing a circular maneuver\h
where this object comes up and is mimicking his\h\h

461
00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:34,400
circular maneuvers so that's kind of what\h
i did i put these objects in motion at the\h\h

462
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:39,280
relative speed and altitudes that they would\h
be and showed how what the pilot might see\h\h

463
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:47,200
and it's actually quite small i mean when you look\h
at the real you know kind of distances and so on\h\h

464
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:52,560
you know he saw like a little white speck you know\h
this thing wasn't like giant in front of him or\h\h

465
00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:58,720
anything he got within maybe a mile of it and even\h
at that range it was pretty small um but i think\h\h

466
00:47:58,720 --> 00:48:04,240
that based on everything that they that the pilots\h
have said it's probably pretty close at least you\h\h

467
00:48:04,240 --> 00:48:09,600
know none of the pilots have like come to me and\h
um said hey that's completely wrong you know that\h\h

468
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:14,240
that didn't look like that at any anything um i\h
think the only pushback i got was you know some\h\h

469
00:48:14,240 --> 00:48:18,960
of the voice acting was a little poor you know\h
like like so the pilots don't like to said that\h\h

470
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:23,840
they were like peeing their pants or whatever\h
kevin day kevin day said that or something\h\h

471
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:29,600
well you did it you did a real service for people\h
that want to know more about this you you really\h\h

472
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:34,000
uh you know made it come alive for for a lot of\h
people and congratulations on that it's quite\h\h

473
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:38,560
an accomplishment yeah i've second that too dave i\h
mean i for one think that your work's been largely\h\h

474
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:43,680
unacknowledged and uh we wanted to pay tribute to\h
the work that you are still doing and hopefully\h\h

475
00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:48,400
still to come dave i think we have to end it there\h
because we've come to the end of need to know for\h\h

476
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:54,720
this week but what i have learned from what you've\h
told us today is that the 2019 incident cannot be\h\h

477
00:48:54,720 --> 00:49:03,520
explained away in a prosaic way as uas ua s's\h
or drones so thank you very much for joining us\h\h

478
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:09,600
thank you appreciate it appreciate the time\h
to discuss it all right take care take care\h\h

479
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:18,880
and we'll be back another time very soon with more\h
very very interesting news that we have coming\h\h